Shortly before the release of MODEM TIMES, Kinetik were interviewed in-depth by music journalist Carl Jenkinson in December 2006.

Q. So as this is written, the long-delayed album MODEM TIMES is just about ready to be released. Given that it was announced a good 4-5 years ago & it's been several years since your last release (the single "Marconi") and any live gig the obvious question has to be - what took you so long ?

CJ : This is not a simple question to answer, since there are many reasons and the details are complicated, but I'll do my best:

Our first studio album REFINED took about two and a half years to record and release, so I originally thought that it was realistic to complete MODEM TIMES sometime around the year 2000, considering that we had actually started writing material for it during our rehearsals for the EMMA 4 concert in 1997 . In fact during a radio interview in 1998, I actually said we were then aiming for a 'pre-millennial' release !!! I still have a provisional track listing and plan for the album which we prepared sometime in 1998. If only I knew then what I know now...

Our first delay came about due to our sudden decision to release a remix collection (RE-GENERATIONS) as a second album before properly embarking upon the MODEM TIMES sessions in late 1999. By this time, we had moved over from analogue recording to using more modern digital recording consoles. At the time, we felt the delay was justified since the new digital techniques we were now using would in theory fit with the concepts of the new album very well and hopefully produce a more polished end result.

Work was progressing well up until the first half of 2000. Then two factors made further work much more difficult. Firstly, Shirleyann and I relocated our studio from West Wales to Cornwall. There had always been a large geographical distance separating us from Andrew in Bath, so adding an extra 80 miles or so needn't have made that much difference in itself. However, at around this time Andrew also started a new job and suddenly found that obtaining the required time off work to devote to Kinetik activities was now much more difficult. His visits to the studio became far less frequent and of much shorter duration than had been possible before. One such visit lasted a mere five hours !!!! Throughout the project, Andrew had always been an integral part of the writing and recording of new album material since the first sessions, so Shirleyann and I had no wish to continue in his absence without his artistic input. This has undoubtedly been one of the main reasons why the album has taken such a long time to complete.

It's important to remember that our Kinetik work has never been a full-time occupation for us. We've always had other occupational and social commitments and sometimes, regrettably, these force Kinetik to take a back seat for a while. We are not the same people we were five or six years ago and each of our lives have changed, sometimes in totally unexpected ways. As an example, in 2005 Shirleyann and I got married and also spent nearly a month in Antarctica ! Meanwhile, Andrew had his own emotional distractions. It's therefore not surprising that not too much was achieved during that year.

We were finally all set for MODEM TIME's completion and release at the start of 2006, when a series of unfortunate events occurred which forced me to focus elsewhere for a while. I suddenly found myself out of work and facing the very real prospect of losing both my home and the studio. Shortly afterwards, a close family member died and I learned of the death of one of my friends. Perhaps not surprisingly, I entered a period of intense depression. It was difficult to even contemplate any Kinetik work when it was uncertain how long it would be before I was forced to sell the instruments I was using or how I would be able to pay towards the CD pressing of the new album. The indefinite postponement of the album yet again for the foreseeable future only added to my bleak mood. I found the only way I could cope with the situation was to totally divorce myself from all aspects of Kinetik while this black period of uncertainty existed. I realise and regret that many people must have been concerned about the lack of news, product, website updates or email contact during this time, and that it must have been frustrating. Believe me, no one has been more disappointed, frustrated or annoyed about the situation than I was !

AS: Yes, we initially started working on material for this album after our live appearance at EMMA in 1997. The song which kick started this was 'I.S.D.N.' and reiterated by our Radio Derby interview with Ashley Franklin at the BBC several months later when he asked us about which path we would be following after the REFINED album.

Q. Presumably you've used the extra time to polish the album still further. Are there any particular aspects, or any particular tracks, that you feel have especially benefited from this?

CJ : In 2000 / 2001 We had made some preliminary mixes of new material, but I was very unhappy with them. Unfortunately, the sound quality of the built-in mixers attached to the digital recorders left a lot to be desired. Also, as our music was increasing in its complexity, it also became more difficult to mix down manually to our satisfaction . It was obvious that some kind of new automation was required. After investing in a new automated digital mixer, we were at last able to approach the standards of production we desired. MODEM TIMES in 2007 is a much better and satisfying production than would have been possible in 2002 or 2003.

SD: When you record a track it is fresh and new and you hear it with 'fresh ears', but when you live with this track for a while you begin to hear it differently, you hear  different aspects of it. It is far better to spend time 'honing' a piece of music, rather than being five years down the line and wishing you played it differently.

AS: Time has been a major factor during the recording of MODEM TIMES - mainly the lack of it during my less frequent visits to the Kinetik studio ! So as a result, the finished article has taken a lot longer than expected to reach the public domain. But I think we all feel the wait has been worthwhile, especially considering the quality of the material and the recording we are now presenting.

Q. Are there any particular areas that you feel that the new album progresses from your previous works musically?

CJ : There are one or two tracks on the album which may come as a bit of a surprise, especially the tracks at each end of the album - "Modem Times" and "Over & Out". I feel that the album contains a little more experimentation and variety than what some might previously have categorised as 'Kinetik Music'. Hopefully, there's still plenty there for the diehard Kinetik or Kraftwerk fans to enjoy also !

SD: It is important to us to play the type of music that we want to. We are not the same people that we were 10 years ago, we have changed....... so it stands to reason that we would change musically too. 

AS: Listening back to the finished album, there is quite a contrast of styles and material. This was not intentional. It is just how our songs and audio sketches developed over time.

Q. As usual, there's a concept or theme running through the album as has been the case on your previous releases. Do you find it important to have a concept to work from?

CJ : It's useful, but not essential. For example, the studio tracks we released on disc 2 of RE-GENERATIONS all had completely different themes. Having an overall concept behind an album can help to crystalise ideas and I feel certainly makes the final CD flow better between tracks.

SD: We don't tend to write ordinary pop songs. We get interested in a subject ie: Marconi, Go Elements Go, Refined etc and ideas spring from that. 

AS: When we started thinking about our ideas for the album in 1997 and 1998, there was a list of common themes which came to the fore. Perhaps we set our own guidelines as to how the material and themes would present themselves from both a visual point of view as well as an audio one.

Q. Presumably, then, you're not worried that the spectre of Kraftwerk comparisons aren't going to raise their ugly heads again (as Kraftwerk also worked to a concept on each album)

CJ : But Kraftwerk were certainly not the inventors of the idea of the concept album ! Other artists had done so before, and many, many others have done so since. Actually, comparisons with Kraftwerk do not worry me unduly. On the contrary, to be compared to them can and should be taken as a complement. Of course, given Kinetik's history, it would be pointless to try and deny that Kraftwerk have been a major influence in our work. Some bands have taken such influences in other extreme directions, even down to duplicating as much as possible Kraftwerk's original tone colours and song structures. There's nothing wrong itself with such an approach, and I'm sure that there are many people out there who appreciate such bands, but I've personally always seen this direction as somewhat restrictive. After all, you can only produce so many chordal variations on 'Europe Endless' or 'Man Machine'. What we've tried to achieve with Kinetik is to develop this 'genre' of music (in the same way that Folk music or Heavy Metal is a 'genre') while giving our music a distinctive Kinetik signature and style which existing Kraftwerk fans will hopefully still find accessible.

SD: I think we are now poles apart from Kraftwerk in every way. Covering Kraftwerk tracks as Elektro Kinetik was a useful and interesting way to start out as a band, but we now have our own musical 'sound' and 'structure'. I can certainly go several months without thinking about Kraftwerk, but I understand why people will make the  comparisons!

AS: The comparisons are flattering, but the musical aim of Kinetik has never been to duplicate the Kraftwerk sound or ethos. The Kinetik sound and output has developed in very much its own direction. Perhaps a lot of comparisons are obvious, due to some of the sounds and time signatures which have been known to overlap on the odd occasion.

Q. Every Kinetik release has been all your own work. Do you perhaps feel that having a label behind you might have proven beneficial in terms of deadlines and so on, or perhaps even just marketing? After all, promoting your releases seems a lot of work for just the three of you to undertake.

CJ : I think we've made it self-evident that meeting deadlines is not always as easy as originally thought ! Seriously though, being involved with a label would not have made MODEM TIMES appear any sooner. When you're involved with a label, it's inevitable (especially if you're a previously unsigned band) that you will relinquish an amount of control over the end product, be it cover art, presentation, content or whatever. Bear in mind that we've never seen Kinetik as a means of getting rich or achieving world domination. It's something that we do in our spare time, how and when we want to. It's something that we each derive a huge amount of satisfaction and sense of achievement from, precisely BECAUSE the end product reflects our original intentions as much as possible. Once a label becomes involved, it ceases to become a hobby and becomes a contracted business. If you're contracted to meet a deadline, it's very easy to make compromises which you'll regret later. If it ceases to be fun, why be involved ?

I have sometimes thought that we might benefit from having a manager (rather than label) to promote and market us, but it would have to be the right type of person - Someone who understands the way we work and appreciates the way we organise our lives away from Kinetik.

AS: We actually did have a manager for a very short period in 1998-1999, but it's good to have a certain amount of self control over your own output and creativity. Having another person in the Kinetik equation from a business point of view has not been important to our way of doing things. It may also mean that we would have another element to worry about, whereas currently we are and always have been a self contained and independent unit. And of course, we have some very close friends who have stepped in to  help when needed.

Q. Likewise your insistence on playing everything totally live on stage is laudable in theory, but it must make gigs a logistic and  technical nightmare. Do you not think that scaling down your set-up might allow you more opportunities to play live and thus gain more recognition in that way?

CJ : I can never really foresee us ever playing more than a couple of gigs during a single year. The geographic distance between us and our respective work and social commitments make it impossible for us to ever contemplate doing more than that. For that reason, whenever we DO have the chance to perform, we see it as a special event for both ourselves and for anyone who has possibly travelled many, many miles to see us. When we played in London in 2002, there were people who had actually travelled from Italy just to see us perform a 40 minute set - incredible !!! Performing totally live with our instruments allows a flexibility and audience interaction which is simply impossible to achieve by miming along to a tape or having everything directly run from a laptop computer. Sadly, all too many electronic acts nowadays 'perform' in such a fashion, and I've always felt somewhat cheated when I've seen a gig which I know will be 100% identical and inflexible at the next date in the tour. I don't want our audience to feel like that. If they've been generous enough with their time and money to support what we're doing, we should try to make the performance as special and individual as possible.

Kinetik has always been a band who have highly valued improvisation in a live performance. Every one of our concert appearances is different in some way to our last one. We are able to respond to the audience and situation in a way which would be impossible to achieve if we were 'performing' in any other way. How do you change a sequence in real-time if it is running from a computer or pre-recorded on tape ? And does it really matter ? Yes, actually I think it does. I'd personally find no enjoyment in performing in any other way. I'd like to think of Kinetik as musicians as well as technicians.

Obviously, having a lot of equipment on stage could hold great potential for possible problems, but we have taken steps to ensure everything is as modular and minimised the  risks to ensure all is as trouble free as possible. We can now achieve in 30 minutes of setting up, what would have taken us hours before, as for example at EMMA 4 in 1997.  However, this counts for nothing when a band arrives at a venue and is expected to set up in five minutes flat and perform without the luxury of a soundcheck or system check. Sadly, this is precisely what  happened to us at our last live gig in London in 2003, where to compound matters, all of our kit was unceremoniously shoved forwards many feet moments before we were due to  begin. Despite the resulting technical hitches and dislodged cables, we still managed to record some unique live versions of our material which are worthy of a CD release.  I think this alone justifies our approach.

Such events as our last gig are geared more towards making money for the promoters than giving the audience a satisfactory musical performance. The whole experience in 2003 left a very bitter taste in my mouth and this is certainly one of the reasons we have not played live since. I felt we had let our audience down through no direct fault of our own.  Our performance on that day was not as satisfactory as it could and should have been. We intend to avoid such situations in the future and will insist on a sound and systems check before starting. I think this is a reasonable approach, and providing these requirements  are met, we'll be fine with our existing live setup.

AS: The Kinetik live show is very live and provides the three of us with a challenge to perform and manipulate our studio environment in a live setting. In some respects, the  equipment and staging has increased but this is through development. It has also become more streamlined and more maintenance free. On those rare moments when we are  allowed to play live as Kinetik, it is very important for the three of us to communicate and play live. I would envisage the amount of instrumentation to decrease over the years, but this will come with the march of technology. It's always a good light show with all those flickering LEDs !

Q. Having listened to the album I can certainly attest that the production is also the best you've yet achieved.

CJ : Higher production values have certainly been our goal since we started on the project. As digital technology has advanced and become more affordable, so it has been possible  for us to achieve better and better end results. As an example, since we no longer use analogue tape to record our music, we no longer need to worry about tape hiss or multi track  'bleed through'. The new digital mixing techniques we are now using also enable us to achieve a cleaner and more detailed sound. This seems very appropriate, considering the  new album's obvious digital themes.

AS: It's taken us a number of years and a small amount of investment, but the results are now there for all to hear. When working, you have an idea how you would like your end  result to sound and now a lot of these goals have exceeded our own sonic expectations.

Q. One of my favourite tracks is "Sine Language" which is not only full of clever wordplays but manages to add a very human feel to this synthetic music. Where did this come from?

CJ : 'Sine Language' happens to be the track I'm the most satisfied with on the album. I think its strength lies in its simplicity. To me, it has a minimalist feel compared to some of the other tracks. It was a track which we all thought a great deal about before actually embarking upon any recording work. At one point, we were actually considering the feasibility of performing a concert for deaf people. At first, this idea seems absurd - how can you possibly perform music for someone who cannot actually hear it ? However, when you consider that Kinetik always try to perform live with synchronised back projection and we often have a very strong rhythmic structure to our music, it becomes clear that it would be possible to theoretically perform music which could be seen visually as well as felt physically via the vibrations in the air or ground caused by our PA loudspeakers.

Thinking of the way sound waves travel through the atmosphere or ground, Sine waves are the most basic fundamental type of sound wave since they only have a single harmonic  present. More complex sounds are achieved by adding Sine waves together of different frequencies - a technique known in electronic music as 'additive synthesis'. We've used Sine  waves in the song to create some of the more unusual sound effects. As the lyrics say, "A Sine is a wave", but also "A wave is a sign" when you think in terms of sign language.  Sign language is actually a digital language in the true sense of the word - it is expressed by the digits we all have on our hands ! 

Andrew had some unintentionally amusing ideas for this song which were ultimately not used. For a while he was thinking about lyrics based upon road signs or signs which you might see elsewhere such as "Keep Out" or "Beware of high tides" !

AS: One of the first ideas I had for this piece was influenced by a friend of mine who is a sign language interpreter and works with young people with learning disabilities and the disadvantaged. His unique enthusiasm and selflessness made me think about how music and sound could be communicated to deaf people, perhaps using rhythms and textures to speak. This song started off life more as a visual idea than an audio one. It was also difficult lyrically as we had a lot of ideas in this direction but of course we did not want to sound  patronising. I also did not want to make the mistake of creating a government health warning video and accompanying soundtrack. This would have been too farcical.

Q. The closing track "Over & Out" is easily the most poignant, emotional track you've ever played, I'm guessing this means a lot to you all?

CJ : This is another track which we thought a great deal about before we started recording. The title 'Over & Out' can be interpreted in several different ways. The title of course fits in well with the album's themes of communication and digital technology and It's also deliberately the last piece of music present on MODEM TIMES and the most recent piece  to be composed and recorded by us. It's the last piece of recorded music likely to be released by us for the foreseeable near future, so the title could also be taken to reflect this. 

During the production of MODEM TIMES, we lost a very close member of the Kinetik Family, Max Fairbrother. Another possible resonance for the track's title. Max had been responsible  for organising Kinetik's first ever live gig at the Burning Issue concert in 1995 as well as producing the artwork for the resulting limited edition live album we produced. He had a very  keen interest in music technology and had always provided us with a comfortable and productive atmosphere for all of our concert rehearsals right up until our Bath Electronica  performance in 2000. We've dedicated the album to Max's memory and so it seemed appropriate that the last thing to be heard in the track is a sample of his voice. In a typical example of his humour, he can be heard reminding us that "the studio's this way folks !". A very fitting quote to close the album with !

It was actually a very difficult track to put together for a number of reasons : Firstly we had a few different ideas as to what the track would actually sound like. We worked on a  completely different piece under the working title of 'Over & Out' at the start of 2006 before abandoning it in favour of the piece now presented. Maybe the original idea will appear on a future Kinetik CD sometime. 'Over & Out' was also a difficult track emotionally for us to complete since it marked the end of the project which had lasted seven years and we knew that it would feature Max's voice at the end. Although it was never intended as an overtly emotional piece of music, it turned out rather differently to all of our surprise. I think Shirleyann's emotive wind synthesizer solo aptly summed up our feelings about the album's completion and the sadness we all felt at saying goodbye to Max.

SD: When I compose a solo wind-synth part I just 'go with' what feels right to play at the time - it almost bypasses the brain and goes straight from the ears to the fingers...... sometimes  even I am surprised at what comes out! But I suppose in my subconscious I knew that the piece was always going to be dedicated to Max and that may have influenced the 'mournful  feeling' in my solo.

AS: A very emotional piece for us to construct and eventually complete. Musically, it is very thought provoking to the three of us and it has a dual finality and an invitation to the next  phase of our work together.

Q. You've made mention above of a 'Kinetik Family'. I guess one very important member is Dave England who did the excellent artwork on the new album. (you can also mention anybody else who contributed)

CJ : The term 'Kinetik Family' really refers to the band and everyone who is or was closely associated with us. As well as our common goal of creating music, all of us in the family are foremostly, and most importantly, extremely good friends. This would still be the case even if we weren't involved in creating Kinetik music. As you've hinted, Dave England is indeed a very valued  member of our electronic community. As well as being an accomplished artist, responsible for much of our CD artwork, he's also actually a very talented musician and always  provides interesting feedback on our latest work. In fact on this album Dave was able to actually contribute some ideas of his own onto one of the tracks ('Satellites'). Dave is always a good person to have around whenever we are preparing a live performance and is usually responsible for operating our back screen projections and computer graphics on stage.

Another member of the Kinetik Family who has contributed to the new album is Allen Hardy. He was an original member of the band for a short while back in 1995, composing the track 'Pipeline' which appeared on the REFINED album. More recently he has provided us with a small tune snippet which features on the track 'Tuning In'. 

AS: The Kinetik family started life when Shirleyann and Colin created the Elektro Kinetik project in 1993 and has expanded and grown and even moved house and studio.  I think there will be more members of this family and way of electronic musical life in the future. Like the music that has happened, Kinetik has a momentum of its own so this has been very rewarding in a humbling and accumulative sort of way.

Q. There's also going to be a limited edition 2CD/DVD release of the album. What can we expect to find there?

CJ : To help make up for the continual delays we faced in completing and releasing the album, we've decided to give away a free CD and DVD with the first 50 copies of MODEM TIMES ordered directly from us. The bonus CD is titled MODEM TIMES SUPPLEMENT and features a studio version of the popular track 'Trans-Continental', a song previously only available as a live version performed at EMMA 4 in 1997. Also present on the CD is an early demo arrangement of the song 'Tranz Mission' featured on MODEM TIMES and a couple of live recordings of material performed by us at our last London gig in 2003.

The DVD is titled MODEM TIMES VIDEO SUPPLEMENT and will contain a recent interview where we talk about various aspects of producing the album. Also included are features detailing how the album was digitally mixed and the artwork was produced. To round off the package, there's a guided tour of our studio, a peep behind the scenes at the recording sessions of the last track on the album 'Over & Out' and some vintage promo films and concert extracts taken from our archives. 

Q. Once the album is released what then? I guess live gigs must be something you're looking at?

CJ : We're all excited about the prospect of presenting our new material in a live context, both in sound and vision, since we've always hoped that we could coincide the new album's release with a live performance somewhere. We're currently in very early talks concerning a proposed concert in Andrew's home town Bath, to possibly take place around February 2007. This would be ideal for us, since we had very good vibes when we last played there in 2000, resulting in one of our most relaxed and longest performances ever.

Another possibility for us is a proposed event to take part at the Goonhilly Satellite Earth Tracking Station sometime in the Summer of 2007. This is situated right on the doorstep of our studio in Cornwall. We feel that playing there amongst the giant satellite dishes would complement the new album's themes very well !

Following on from any concerts, the plan is for us take a break from our Kinetik activities for a while. Remember, we've been focusing our musical endeavours solely on this project for  the past seven years. Even for us, this is a long time. So now at long last we'll each have the opportunity to indulge ourselves for a short while, working in various other musical  directions. Once we've got all of that out of our system, I'm sure we'll all meet up again with a fresh pair of ears and a new enthusiasm for our next project together - whatever that may turn out to be !